Brexit means (not much will change) Brexit

 Progressive European Party

If you have you seen the film the Producers you will remember that they worked out that if they put on a play that is overprescribed but fails on the first night they can make a fortune because none of the investors would expect any money back. But it all goes terribly wrong because the play is a great success. This reminds me of Brexit because now they have won they have no way of giving anyone what they promised. All they can do is keep being ambiguous and wasting as much time as possible and hope for the best because there is no way they can ever deliver on any of their campaign pledges. 

As Theresa May continues to put forward speech by speech her total lack of a plan where every vague proposal is dismissed out of hand by the EU one comes to realise what a great asset she is to us remainers. I am beginning to think that she is not as incompetent as she looks and is really a highly-trained double agent, skilled in the fine art of deception. Placed there by a secret remain elite to torpedo Brexit right from under the noses of the hard-line brexiteers.

“Alignment” will after all when taken to its logical conclusion produce a Brexit in name only. For the Irish border to be open the same rules have to apply on both sides. With a border running down the Irish sea being totally unpalatable to the DUP and the Northern Irish they represent then the whole of the UK will have to use the same rules. They may not want to, as Corbyn has, call it A Customs union, but that is in essence what it will have to be.

The next Brexit sacred cow to be led to the slaughter could well be immigration. EU immigration has become so vital to our economy and for the smooth running of services, it would be madness to put some arbitrary limitation on it. In any case with our attempt at cherry picking, it is likely that we will be told that we have to take the whole bowl with free movement thrown in.

Brexit, in the end, is likely to be as close to what we have now as is possible. What choice is there other than to try and replicate our EU membership. It is either that or a Liam Fox dystopia.

               Philip Notley          #progEuroparty

Re: Theresa May’s speech

 Progressive European Party

The impression I get from May’s speech is, it's going to be hard, it's going to make problems, but we can get through it. Well we all know that but there is no explanation as to why a prime minister of this country would want to do this to our nation. Where are the benefits. Where is the land of milk and honey, what about the taking back of control, the extra money for the NHS, the regaining of sovereignty, the control of our borders. And all the rest we were promised. There was some vague description of how it might look, what we would stay in and what we would stay out of. But not one word of how any of this would advantage the country in any way.

There is no way we will have regained the control of our borders if the Irish border does stay open. Ireland is not in Schengen, I presume for the same reason that they joined the EU simultaneously to us. In order for our two nations to be in compliance because we have that border. After Brexit there is no reason for them not to join Schengen some time in the future. How will an open border work then. Labour’s vague proposal of us staying in a customs union with the EU is a step forward but would still need passport controls. The border between Norway and Sweden is often put up as an example of how it might work, however they do have the freedom of movement so no passport checks but because Norway is not in the customs union they stop and search vehicles to stop smuggling. Is May’s Government saying that they will turn a blind eye to all smuggling. And what I find the biggest travesty of all she made no mention of the border between Gibraltar and Spain. Make of that what you will

 

   Philip Notley   #progEuroparty

Posts on a Scientists for EU #FBPE‏ Twitter thread

 Progressive European Party

The following is a not untypical “conversation” with a leave voter

progressive #FBPE‏ @Prog_Party Feb 25
The free movement of people is the EU’s greatest achievement. So why do the brexiteers hate it so much

BUTTS
Yea ... if youre Romanian ...

progressive #FBPE‏ @Prog_Party Feb 26
or if your British

BUTTS Feb 26
Why ? Where could you not go before ? .... unless you were a defector only the eastern bloc , life is so good in those countries guess what ?? ..... theyre all here .... kinda makes your argument look a bit daft doesnt it ?

progressive #FBPE‏ @Prog_Party Feb 27
EU nationals coming here is a win win situation They benefit and we benefit Why do you want to stop something that everyone benefits from?

BUTTS Feb 27
Everything is ok in moderation , when it becomes an invasion & creates resource problems please tell me how we benefit ??

progressive #FBPE‏ @Prog_Party Feb 27
European migrants made a net contribution of £20bn to UK public finances between 2000 and 2011

BUTTS Feb 27
Yeah .... lies , damn lies & statistics ... go & get a doctors appointment or get your child in a school .... among a thousand other things ... ive no doubt there are thousands who benefit both themselves & our economy .. ive also no doubt about the thousands who dont .

progressive #FBPE‏ @Prog_Party 10h10 hours ago
Your blaming those who contribute to our society for the under funding policies of our government Why not blame who is responsible

BUTTS 7h7 hours ago
So they all contribute do they ??? If another 10 people came to live in your house , and it was only built for 5 would that not be a problem ? We dont have the resources to keep the world .. how much do you want the govt to fund , remember .. they dont fund it .. YOU do

progressive #FBPE‏ @Prog_Party 6h6 hours ago
Again your blaming those who come here and contribute to our society instead of blaming the Gov for not building the houses we need Very twisted logic Nothing more than scapegoating

BUTTS 7h7 hours ago
Where do you want to build ?? Which bit of we are full do you not get ?? Lets bring em all here eh !! I will pay ... & pay to send money to their kids, i am blaming the govt .... for not stopping it years ago ....

progressive #FBPE‏ @Prog_Party 4m4 minutes ago
You still don’t get it do you, they are not some poor relative that we have to support The NHS needs them industry needs them the Treasury needs the Tax income we benefit enormously by there coming here to work we will suffer economically and socially if we end the free movement

progressive #FBPE‏ @Prog_Party 4m4 minutes ago
of people with EU and we have plenty of space to build more housing and 2 or 3 new towns and space within existing towns Encourage them to come and let them help turn us into the greatest country in europe instead of the insignificant backwater that brexit will turn us into

BUTTS
Theres no cure for stupid ... you made your case pre referendum , it clearly didnt wash .... the majority spoke and we are leaving , all youre doing is trying to bolt the stable door , sorry the horse went last june .... the quiet masses spoke ..... no more , no thanks ...

BUTTS
You dont get it ..... we dont ..there are millions of people either unemployed or on zero hour contracts , we arent importing brain surgeons here ... its mainly an unskilled labour force , and yes , in the main we are supporting a poor relative , or they wouldnt be here .

progressive #FBPE‏ @Prog_Party 3m3 minutes ago
I never made any case before the referendum I’m not trying to bolt the stable door I’m trying to take over the country We are employing brain surgeons most EU migrants are university educated No cure for the stupid you said it not me

BUTTS
“Most EU migrants are university educate” .... congrats on the most deluded dimwitted quote of the week .... which planet are you living on ?? Youre in cloud cuckoo land ...

progressive #FBPE‏
No I only use facts
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/08/mapped-how-britain-has-the-highest-level-of-skilled-migration-in/

The point of view being put forward is something I have come up against before with face to face discussions that I have had with leavers. The EU nationals that come here are uneducated, they are a drain on our resources, they push wages down take jobs from the locals put a strain on the health service and cause overcrowding in our little Island where we have no more room. And so forth. 
Is it worth getting into discussions with someone who it is clear is never going to change their minds on the subject? I think it is. You never know who else is going to read the discourse and to see both arguments side by side could sway someone who previously voted leave to change sides. There is another post that I have not reproduced here where he says the article I gave in support of my assertion that most EU migrants are university graduates in fact does not say that and I should read it more carefully. This total denial of the truth even when it is there in black and white is typical of the leave arguments. 
We must keep engaging with them otherwise they will only talk to like minded people and we tend to do the same. This is especially important to do on the internet because the potential audience is unlimited and after all whether we stay in or leave we all have to somehow get on with each other after this is all over.

                       Philip Notley             #progEuroparty 

Will we regain sovereignty by leaving the EU?

 Progressive European Party

Some people claim that we will we regain sovereignty by leaving the EU

Official EU voting records show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999,
In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.


https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/


This hardly qualifies as a loss of sovereignty.


The only country in the world with complete sovereignty is north Korea. For us to have complete sovereignty we would have to leave the WTO NATO and probably the United Nations as well as the EU. 

"Trade deals" would become virtually impossible.

In the EU we have the benefit of being part of a large bloc that has strong bargaining powers. Outside of it we will not be in the same strong position and would therefore have to give more away to get the deals we want.


Outside the EU we will have less sovereignty than we currently have now as members.


Most decisions made by the EU are taken on a majority vote. So we can, on some occasions, be outvoted. This is a small loss of sovereignty but we are nevertheless a part of the decision-making process and can have an influence over the outcomes. By contrast, if we only use WTO rules we have no control over them whatever. We can only trade under the WTO rules as they currently stand.


Outside the EU our biggest trading partner will still be the EU. So we will still have to follow EU standards on any goods that we sell to them. However, we will no longer have any say in what those requirements will be. In other words, we will have far less sovereignty when trading with the EU than we currently have as members.

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When we do deals with countries such as India and Australia they will want to bring their staff over with their businesses without going through UK Home Office bureaucracy. I am sure that Leavers will say that we can just refuse their demands. As we have just thrown our bargaining chips on the fire along with our EU membership, this would be well-nigh impossible.


The Leave campaign was all about the "taking back of control". What this really meant to many people was depriving EU nationals of the right to come here. Many of our future trade deals will also include free movement of people. The only difference will be that in future more people will be coming from outside of the EU.

How is this a regaining of sovereignty?


There are almost one hundred deals that we now have via our EU membership that we will have to renegotiate. It is highly unlikely that we will get as good a deal with any of them as we currently have now. Each new deal could take many years to negotiate and even more sovereignty will be lost.


Advocates of leave seem to have a totally deluded notion of how the world works and of the UK's place in it.


It seems to me that there is no medicine that can fix our national sickness other than a large and unpalatable dose of reality.


It is all very well for politicians who are not in government to make exaggerated claims about how the world will look when we are on the outside of the EU. However, at present, even our "Government" is also doing exactly that. We may have to wait for the proverbial to hit the fan before normality can be restored.

And "Sovereignty" is the biggest turd of all heading straight towards the Brexit fan.

Philip Notley #progEuroparty

The free movement of people is the EU’s greatest achievement. So why do the brexiteers hate it so much

 Progressive European Party

The EU has immigration guidelines that all members have to adhere to. However in the case of UK and Ireland

“Ireland and the United Kingdom choose, on a case-by-case basis, whether or not to adopt EU rules on immigration, visa and asylum policies”

So when the brexiteers say they are not against immigration, they just want to be able to for example bring doctors from India. We already can. What we can’t do is stop a doctor coming here from France, but why would we want to. None of the leave arguments are rational and most of them are lies or at best distortions of the truth.

EU nationals coming here put a strain on the Health service, we are told. When many of them work in the health service and help to keep it running. And they all have to have health insurance in any case.

The treasury gets a considerable amount of tax revenue from the EU nationals that are working here. More than enough to pay for all the extra  infrastructure costs and with a lot left over.

Seeing as all EU nationals have to have health insurance, and a job or be financially independent, or they can be sent back and seeing as we have the same rights to go there it is hardly something to complain about.

Immigration from the EU is a win win situation. They benefit from coming here, otherwise why would they come. The treasury benefits from the not inconsiderable extra tax revenue. And the whole of our society benefits from the health workers, plumbers, fruit pickers and so forth that we need.

Remind Boris Johnson what he said in December 2016!

With our ageing population we need more people of working age, do we want to be in the situation of having people in their 70’s driving the buses and working on the building sites. Of course we can replace EU immigration with workers from further afield. But what possible advantage would there be in doing so. In any case, the argument from the brexiteers is always about reducing immigration. Remember the “breaking point” poster.

If immigration was considerably reduced it would be disastrous for us. There always seems to be Government targets to reduce immigration down to some level or other by some arbitrary date. There is never a target for an increase. If we did have an increase of EU workers and business our economy would be doing even better. We get no benefit from a German car manufacturer building a factory in Germany. However, if they built it here even if they only employed German staff we would get a great deal of benefit from it. We are in the ludicrous situation of UK businesses advertising abroad for staff while at the same time our Government is trying to bring down immigration. What do they have for breakfast, it's definitely not Weetabix.

  EU migration is falling. But things are getting worse

When we leave the EU it is not membership of the single market or the customs union that we most need to retain. No matter how important both of these are for our economy. The one thing we really need to preserve from our EU membership is the free movement of people. The one thing that the Brexit argument was most desperate to stop is the one thing that we need to keep above all else.

Philip Notley

#progEuroparty

Can Brexit be stopped

 Progressive European Party

If you have a local group and would like a speaker from pEp please contact us on our website. I was asked to speak at the Suffolk EU alliance meeting this morning but this was not confirmed so I will not now be there. This is the speech that I would have been giving

Can Brexit be stopped Fellow Citizens, firstly thank you for inviting me, you probably would have not heard of my party before now, seeing as we are new and in fact this is our first official engagement so please excuse the nerves. Just to give you some background, the word was on the ether, that a new and eurocentric party was needed in the face of Brexit and the political incompetence of our existing parties. Organising in secret with an invitation only group on Facebook we have based ourselves on the previous progressive party that had some success in local government in the 1990’s. Not a just a mirror image of UKIP, not a party with just one aim, we would sweep aside the existing system and have something new and functional in its place that works for everyone. 
Bringing myself to today's problem, can Brexit be stopped. I don’t necessarily think it should be. It goes without saying that we must never stop putting on the pressure, campaigning, demonstrating and putting our arguments forward. Using the one weapon that they can never use, we can tell the truth. But I think Brexit will still happen. A second referendum is much talked about, I think it is the worse of bad ideas. Because it would not solve the real problem that we have. Supposing we did have another referendum and the leave won once again by a small margin, it would be game over, no turning back, we can put away our EU flags and just go home. And if the opposite happened and remain were the winners the leave campaigners would be up in arms, the country would be even more divided than it is now. And that is our real problem, not Brexit itself but the divide in our society that has us all at each other's throats over this issue. 
This is all our fault, when were we in parliament square waving our EU flags in celebration of our European citizenship before the referendum. Never is the answer. Whereas the EU sceptics have been moaning away in the background for years with very little rebuttal from the rest of us. The EU has become the whipping boy for what is wrong with our society whereas the ones really responsible are getting away with it scot-free. Isn't it suspicious that at the same time as the EU is introducing the Corporate Tax Reform Package that Brexit should happen. The Conservatives used the financial crash as an excuse to bring in austerity measures because public debt was proclaimed as being at the heart of our problems. They were wrong, it is private debt that is the problem and austerity has made that worse, it has increased the use of payday loans and credit cards and rent and mortgage arrears. In addition to austerity they have manipulated the benefits system to force the unemployed and disabled into low wage jobs and cynically pronounce high employment as a great achievement. Ignoring the food banks and the homeless sleeping in doorways which is a direct result of their policies. Who benefits from a high employment low wage society you should ask yourself, the same people who fund their party and UKIP with millions of pounds every year that's who. There is a word for this, it's called “slavery”. In face of such political measures and, because of globalisation the loss of jobs that gave workers a sense of worth, has made the perfect storm when looking for who to blame. Blame the outsiders, blame the EU. Brexit is not the problem, it is the symptom. But it could also be the strong medicine that is needed to cure the sickness that we as a nation are suffering from. 
The real problem is the divide in our society and not one just based on wealth either. Could you imaging that any of the leave voters feel European, they don’t, what they do feel, whether they understand it or not, is that their national identity is being threatened. No one gave a thought to the psychological impact of us joining. In the past we were in a far larger alliance of nations with the British Empire. With our Empire all the other members were subservient to us. This has a long lasting effect on the national psyche. With our EU membership we are being imposed upon by eurocrats who make up little rules that affect our lives over which we have no say in and all those foreigners are coming over here and taking our jobs. Not factual reality but it is how it is perceived by many of our fellow citizens. Long before the EU became the receiver of our projected national shadow I have had conversations where I was told that when foreigners come here they get a council house and benefits prioritising them over the locals. No politicians have ever tried to set the record straight on this urban myth. I suspect because it is so absurd they would not take it seriously. But you need to take it seriously because people actually believe it. And all these people have a vote. This negativity with regards to immigrants was easily transferred to the anti EU vote especially amongst the older voters. We have done little or nothing to give our population any pride in being a part of such a great diverse and successful alliance of nations. Why don’t we have the euro, why don’t our school children learn to sing the EU anthem, why is the EU money that is spent on projects locally not publicized. I tell you, you have to be a real Sherlock Holmes to find that information out. We have never until now tried to celebrate our European identity. Even the farmers, who are the ones who probably get the most benefit from EU subsidies, we are told, mostly voted to leave. So what can we do now to heal the divide, how do we change the EU from being a perceived threat into being seen as the benefactor that it really is. A nation comes together in times of national crisis, when we all have one shared problem one shared advisory. We need to switch the rhetoric so it is Brexit that takes the blame for all the problems that are almost certainly going to emerge from our leaving the EU. When we start to feel the pain we should engage with the other half of our divided nation and try and take them with us advocating the EU as a solution to the many problems that Brexit will surely bring. Let's turn Brexit against the Brexiteer’s and use it as a weapon to change us into not just a EU member state but into true Europeans. Let us show that a continued or renewed membership is the only thing standing in the way of the super rich becoming super super rich while the rest of us have to work long hours for low wages long after retirement age just to survive. Our EU membership is the only thing that would stop the partial privatisation of the health service and police force. Would stop Labour from plunging the country into even greater debt to finance their antiquated policies of the 1940’s. Let us grab victory from the jaws of defeat and use Brexit as a catalyst for change Let us help everyone in our society feel European

Philip Notley

Progressive European Party Manifesto 2017

 Progressive European Party

Foreword by Philip Notley

People with money have power.

They use their influence to manipulate the media and to shape the political landscape to their own ends. This counter-democratic activity is our enemy. It has tricked voters into believing that the EU is the source of all their problems.

In fact, the real culprits are those who operate behind the scenes whose money and power the EU is beginning to curb.

In our manifesto, the Progressive European Party proposes a system of direct democracy which will give us all an equal say in the decisions that affect our lives.

No longer will big businesses manipulate the media, control public opinion and influence government policy. You, the people, will decide the issues on the basis of factual arguments and informed comment.

We shall also build social and private housing to end the disgraceful blight of homelessness. We intend to introduce a citizen's income that will put an end to poverty and encourage altruism by recognising and rewarding the contributions that we all make to our communities.

The universal citizen's income will make it possible to levy a fairer, flat-rate of taxation. Both the rich and the less well off will pay the same percentage of their earnings back into society.

Businesses, too, will pay the same flat-rate on their profits. The many other taxes that are now paid by businesses, even when they are making a loss, will be abolished. A tax based solely on profits, coupled with a guaranteed income for all, will both encourage startups and, at last, breathe new life into our high streets.

It is easy for a party that does not yet have political power to make exaggerated claims about what they expect to achieve when in government. Over the years, successive governing parties have failed to fulfil the promises of their pre-election manifestos.

I am confident that we shall be able to avoid these pitfalls. All of our policies are logical, rational and, for the most part, achievable in the short term.

It would be an understatement to say that, at present, the future of our country is looking decidedly gloomy. The combined effects of bad policies, bad leadership and the influence of vested interests on successive governments have taken their toll.

What, then, are the alternatives?

Some of the other parties claim that they are progressive. In reality, however, they offer only a recycling of old ideas: nationalisation of industries, a penny on income tax to fund the NHS and more borrowing to finance outdated policies.

The Progressive movement is very different. We are not controlled by big businesses or by the trades unions. We are not encumbered by rigid and outmoded ideologies.

I would say that pragmatism is our only ideology.

Help us, therefore, to move the United Kingdom forward into the twenty-first century with a political system that is fit for the twenty-first century.

Help us to build a Britain and a Europe of which we can all be proud citizens.

Philip Notley